[UX/UI] "Delete Message" doesn't seem to be working as per the expectations the UI sets

[ell1e]

The "Disappearing Messages" dialog makes messages permanently disappear for everyone outside of intentional bypasses that aren't by default in place. This sets the expectations that messages can be deleted for everyone in the chat room. Therefore, "Delete Message" on your own messages would be expected to do the same, because it would fit that model and there doesn't seem to be any warning nor info message of any kind to say otherwise. But this doesn't seem to be the case, it just seems to silently delete it only locally without communicating that caveat.

• Operating System (Linux/Mac/Windows/iOS/Android): Linux
• Delta Chat Version: Desktop v1.48.0 Core v1.148.7
• Expected behavior: "Delete Message" at least on your own message deletes it from everyone's devices in alignment with the other UI functionality, and on other messages in groups where you have no mod permissions it should show a warning that you can only delete it locally
• Actual behavior: "Delete Message" only seems to ever delete locally
• Steps to reproduce the problem: 1. Go into any group chat where you aren't moderator, 2. say something, 3. "Delete Message" on your own message, 4. check back with other group chat members that use DeltaChat clients and no e-mail client workarounds, and verify that your message is still unexpectedly visible for them
• Screenshots:
• Logs:

[WofWca]

I agree.

Though this issue is not specific to Desktop, it applies to other clients as well.

[iequidoo]

The current functionality is useful anyway, sometimes the user wants to delete e.g. a big message. Maybe it should be renamed to "Delete for me", this way the wording is also correct when deleting multiple messages if DC Desktop implements this.

[ell1e]

Telegram which I usually wouldn't recommend, solves this via showing a popup that asks if I really want to delete that has a checkbox with something like [X] Delete for everyone and not just me. The default is to fully wipe it.

I like this approach. It makes local deletion discoverable, without bloating the menu with two actions, and without making people delete locally only by accident.

[iequidoo]

One more problem is that the user may not want messages to be deleted silently by others. With "Disappearing messages" it's at least seen in the UI. Moreover, if there are other MUAs, they won't delete messages on their side. So this definitely requires a new setting so that the user can choose between a Delta Chat -style behaviour or a "classic MUA" one

[hpk42]

On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 08:23 -0800, iequidoo wrote: One more problem is that the user may not want messages to be deleted silently by others. With "Disappearing messages" it's at least seen in the UI. Moreover, if there are other MUAs, they won't delete messages on their side. So this definitely requires a new setting so that the user can choose between a Delta Chat -style behaviour or a "classic MUA" one

Delta Chat as "classic MUA" has several limitations and is not what we mainly advertise as main use case these days. There is support to use it for some standard e-mail cases, especially in 1:1 chats/mails, and for receiving mails, but regarding group, setting subjects, CCs etc. there are several limitations. As to message deletion, it may involve several levels: - deleting locally - deleting on all my devices and server - deleting on chat partners' devices (which may include all my devices) If we restrict ourselves on locally or "for everyone" then deletion needs some limits maybe like Whatsapp does (IIRC some minutes after sending you can still delete a message for everyeone) because removing random messages in the past is unexpected. In any case, improving deletion-modes/UI is a known topic but not really planned atm. So i think we can close this issue for now and move it to "project resurrection". Eastern is coming :)

[ell1e]

because removing random messages in the past is unexpected.

Most newer major messengers support this, e.g. Telegram, Discord, Matrix all support silent deletion of any of your own past messages for both sides. This is also a security feature, you may realize a specific single message you sent has a lot of personal info, and it might therefore be better not to let it sit and rot on multiple people's device forever until somebody gets hacked and it is accidentally leaked.

I don't think there's much of a use case (I'm not saying none, I'm only saying less so) of people wanting to always retain everything for fear of people somehow disappearing past proof. You can always screenshot or archive specific things before and if you didn't then in many cases possibly it wasn't that vital to start with. Even if it was important, I would argue this is often still a less disastrous scenario than something being left undeleted that leaks at a later point.

[ell1e]

Sorry for the spam, but I remembered this: currently, "Disappearing Messages" doesn't yet have the time frame most of my friends prefer, so it's off. Once that changes, they probably won't bother deleting the stuff before, but I might for my own messages. But that would require manual deletion without time limit as well.

So there are many potential uses.