1.21 update

[fenhl]

With Minecraft 1.21 scheduled to be released on June 13, I thought I'd share my ideas on how the new items could be made renewable:

• Trial spawners, vaults, and ominous vaults generate in their normal locations, much like some other structures already do. This makes breeze rods, trial keys, and ominous trial keys renewable, and removes the need for the “Glow Berries Craftable” and “Spider Jockeys Drop Cobwebs” datapack features (I would suggest keeping them but disabling them by default).
• Feeding a diamond block into a vault or ominous vault using a hopper resets its list of players that have looted it. This makes flow and guster banner patterns, flow and bolt armor trims, Creator and Precipice music discs, and heavy cores renewable, all without making it possible to farm diamonds using vaults. It also removes the need for the “Cats Gift Enchanted Golden Apples” datapack feature.
• A creeper killed by a skeleton inside a trial chamber can drop the Creator (Music Box) music disc.
• Guster and scrape pottery sherds are added to the loot tables for regular vaults, and flow pottery sherds to ominous vaults.

[liangmiQwQ]

Good idea, wish to update

[TreeOfSelf]

Neat idea, I did it a little differently for my 1.21 server. IP: sky.hardcoreanarchy.gay

[heiheids]

Please complete it as soon as possible, thanks.

[TreeOfSelf]

it is complete

[raoel]

is the code shared somewhere?

[jsorrell]

1.21 is and other recent updates centered around exploration do not integrate smoothly with SkyBlock style worlds. The point of SkyBlock is to use the mechanics to get things, rather than going out and looking for them, like with Iron, Gold, Copper, Cobblestone, Deepslate, Lava, etc. That's why I hesitate to add new structures that generate in the world. Additionally, new gen also doesn't integrate with old worlds like new gameplay features do -- you always have to go to unexplored chunks to find the new things.

Issues:

• Trial Chambers are a very common structure (around 20-25 times as common as strongholds, and much bigger) and with the "underground" visibility that an empty world gives, you would almost always see Vaults/Trial Spawners in some direction if they generated.
  • Possible Solution: Decrease the commonality of the structure substantially. This would make it so the structures don't line up with their normal generation counterparts and would not be correctly listed on ChunkBase.
• There is no barrier to entry, so you can fight them as soon as you start a skyblock world. The fight would not be difficult because it is easy to cheese the system by pushing mobs into the void. You can even get golden apples which almost immediately unlocks villagers, bypassing foxes, pigs, water, and drowneds.
  • Possible Solution: Remove golden apples from the loot table.
  • Possible solution: Add a barrier to entry in some way. This might be confusing.

But I don't think solving these issues is worth it. I do like that the Trial Chambers provide a vanilla way of getting enchanted golden apples and Glow Berries, but that is probably all the trial chambers would add to a SkyBlock world. And Glow Berries are only in the loot chests, not vaults.

Seeing as the vaults can only really be looted once (per person unless you have a huge server), they are basically just loot chests that need a key. And the trial chambers are essentially just mob spawners. Both loot chests and mob spawners are naturally generating features that are not included in this mod up to this point.

The whole "gear up, fight the mobs, and get rewarded with loot" system doesn't work when the mobs just spawn on top of the trial spawner (the only spawnable space), can't move, and can be knocked into the void with arrows or a punch. Breezes can spawn in mid air, so spawn in the void and immediately fall. I'm thinking I will just leave the vaults and trial spawners out of the mod gameplay.

That leaves the question of how to get the new items that they provided, namely:

• Breezes / Breeze Rods / Wind Charges

• Trial Keys / Ominous trial keys (as a trophy)

• Music Disc Precipice (from Vaults)

• Music Disc Creator (from Ominous Vaults)

• Music Disc Creator (Music Box) (from Pots)

• Bolt Armor Trim Smithing Template (from Vaults)

• Flow Armor Trim Smithing Template (from Ominous Vaults)

• Flow, Guster, and Scrape Pottery Sherds (From breaking decorated pots)

• Guster Banner Pattern (from Vaults)

• Flow Banner Pattern (from Ominous Vaults)

• Heavy Core (from Ominous Vaults)

Current Ideas:

-Breezes:

• Breeze trial spawners could still generate. This would provide the Breeze mob and drops, as well as Trial Keys / Ominous keys. This would provide the same breeze rod farming system as Vanilla. Because this would be a much smaller generated size than every spawner and vault, it wouldn't be as easy to spot them everywhere.

• Music Discs:

  • These could mirror the other music disc methods eg the skeleton killing a creeper in the Trial Chamber structure. Maybe the Music Box version could require a Charged Creeper.

• Smithing Templates:

  • I could add challenge advancements to get these like the other smithing templates.

• Banner Patterns:

  • The Guster pattern could be crafted from a Banner Pattern with a Wind Charge.
  • The Flow pattern could be crafted from a Banner Pattern with a Breeze Rod.

• Pottery Sherds

  • Maybe these could be added to the trial spawner loot table?

• Heavy Core

  • In vanilla, you have to loot an average of 13.3 ominous vaults to find one, so they're meant to be difficult to obtain. It would make sense to be able to buy them from a weaponsmith for a hefty fee. Maybe a Netherite block can be "forged" into a heavy core for the price of some emeralds.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[TreeOfSelf]

I just made the trial spawners generate with just the spawners and vaults. I also decreased the amount that would spawn in a trial chamber. This means you can't always guarantee getting a golden apple, and it may take just as long or longer than farming pigs. I've been running it since 1.21 came out on my public server, and it works fine. I do think they are fairly common, but, they also are infrequent enough that finding them is exciting. It does allow you to skip some progress but it also keeps it more "vanilla" and I think it is kind of interesting to have multiple paths to get things.

To keep things simple, yeah I just added things you got in pottery to the vault loot table. I believe the only things I needed to add were a music disk and a trial key for everything to be obtainable. I personally prefer it being kept as vanilla as possible, and I think keeping the trial chambers is the best way to do it.

I was going to open-source the 1.21 update I did under a new fork because a lot of people were saying you abandoned the mod, but if you plan on updating this one I wouldn't really bother.

[fenhl]

• There is no barrier to entry, so you can fight them as soon as you start a skyblock world. The fight would not be difficult because it is easy to cheese the system by pushing mobs into the void. You can even get golden apples which almost immediately unlocks villagers, bypassing foxes, pigs, water, and drowneds.

This is a very good point that I hadn't considered. This modpack essentially has its own progression at this point, which vaults would break. I agree that finding a way to make everything available without vaults would be better.

Current Ideas:

I like these.

• Pottery Sherds

  • Maybe these could be added to the trial spawner loot table?

I'd suggest requiring an ominous trial spawner for the flow pottery sherd.

[Maylern]

1.21 is and other recent updates centered around exploration do not integrate smoothly with SkyBlock style worlds. The point of SkyBlock is to use the mechanics to get things, rather than going out and looking for them, like with Iron, Gold, Copper, Cobblestone, Deepslate, Lava, etc. That's why I hesitate to add new structures that generate in the world. Additionally, new gen also doesn't integrate with old worlds like new gameplay features do -- you always have to go to unexplored chunks to find the new things.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I agree that finding a way to make everything available without vaults would be better.

2nd this! (3rd this?)

@jsorrell
Personally I am not a fan of the trial chambers at all. As per Whitelight's "Another Serious Critique of Minecraft" video, it feels like Microsoft are moving Minecraft further towards a generic "dungeon crawler" style game, without the built-in, subtle incentives to progression that existed in the original game.
As fenhl points out above - at this point carpetsky has it's own progression system already, revolving around the "find location where structure generates, think of ingenious way to use mechanic to farm item" but trial chambers break this completely - as Xisuma, Docm77 and impulseSV have already done on Hermitcraft, the trial chambers are so INCREDIBLY easy to abuse, I would much prefer the (in my mind) more "vanilla" feel.....of this modpack. :)
Suggestion for the long-term: make new spawn rules for skeletons / zombies (e.g. water within 5 blocks block the spawning of creepers+spiders - or at least something that follows from the mechanic that "undead" mobs sink in water) so it's possible to create farms specifically for those 2 mob types (to match existing creeper-only and spider-only) and from that point add in new spawning mechanics for newly added mobs - e.g. phantoms can only spawn in "peaks" biomes, breeze can only spawn on top of a cobweb during a thunderstorm etc.

Regarding specific features - I think the "spider jockey drop cobwebs" is FAR more vanilla than the new potion effect - keep it as it was.

EDIT: Perhaps fork a version of the mod that allows for easier access to the datapack only (the renewable features in a normal world generation) to increase the mods accessibility to the less tech-savvy part of the Minecraft community, thus hopefully pushing the more "Vanilla" feel of the CarpetSky mechanics as a counterbalance to the increasingly non-Vanilla feel of the official game. (perhaps with collaboration with other "this should be in Vanilla" mods such as YUNG'S better [insert mob-themed structure here])

[SWR-DMaster]

I haven't looked into how difficult/possible it would be but would it be an option to create a game rule to allow or disallow the generation of trial chambers in newly generating chunks? If the rule was off by default then the chunks immediately surrounding the start island would generate without any trial chambers still leaving a grind to get over to newly generated chunks should the rule be optionally enabled.

[Maylern]

I haven't looked into how difficult/possible it would be but would it be an option to create a game rule to allow or disallow the generation of trial chambers in newly generating chunks? If the rule was off by default then the chunks immediately surrounding the start island would generate without any trial chambers still leaving a grind to get over to newly generated chunks should the rule be optionally enabled.

In addition to my comment above, this comment from SWR-DMaster is really good. Although maybe rather than it being solely "trial chamber or no" it could modify the world creation menu to allow/dissalow any structure (instead of all structures on/off you could pick and choose which structures would generate in your world - e.g. turn villages off, leave ruined villages on)
Thus allowing the player more choice in what type of game they would like to play.

[TreeOfSelf]

After playing on my public server with Trial Spawners generating, I can say that having Trial Spawners generate is actually not great. They are far too frequent in the world and easy to find everywhere on 32-render distance. The gameplay isn't fun fighting them in the sky and far too trivial.

[TreeOfSelf]

1.21.1 version

[specialTT]

+1

[Gravter-MC]

@jsorrell

What about adding everything in 1.21 but none of the trial spawners?
This way, most of the mechanics of 1.21, especially the auto-crafter would be available.
As for the trial spawners, maybe make them "spawn" only in certain biomes, like a the rare ice spikes biome.
This way, if anyone wants to bridge 10-15k blocks or more then I guess let them!
Of course people can and will look for seeds with these in close proximity, but maybe there could be a parameter that only spawns them overs a radius of 10k blocks from 0,0 ?!?
I am curently playing v.1.20.6 and would love the 1.21 features a lot.
I can do some testing if you are looking for someone to beta test.

Cheers!

EDIT

I like all the options you mentioned for getting the other items, like banner patterns, mace, etc.

[rvblumer]

1.21.1 version

I am getting books and boots with random enchantments rather than soul speed. Is this happening for others playing TreeOfSelf's mod?