Add in place programmer's flashing "best practices" and refer to ch341a rev 1.6+ / Tigard #120
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The general guideline is to make sure that the wiring is conform to chip SPI datasheet (this is a standard generally used by a chip family. Here for xx20/xx30 and SOIC8 chips), making sure that orientation of the chip is good is mandatory. On SPI chips, there is a "dot" which inform the eye that that pin is pin 1: 1- CS / CS# For example, those two guides inversed the picture with similar pin names:
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tlaurion
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All of this should just replace ch341a by ch341a rev 1.6+ based boards which has output voltage selector (5v, 3.3v, 2.5v, 1.8v). The ch341a v1.6/v1.7 is easily distinguishable from past versions by the voltage switch and additional components put on board, green color of board and smaller size compared to black one: One can see the differences between old (black, non versioned ch341a) and green clearly stating v1.7: When flipping v 1.6+ board upside down, one can see on the board the voltage selection switch slots: Example of readily available kits including proper pictures for visual identification of 1.6 board containing a voltage selector and the same components being easily distinguishable prior of buying: https://shop.3mdeb.com/shop/modules/ch341a-flash-bios-usb-programmer-kit-soic8-sop8/ Floahazz 1 Metal Ch341A Programmer V1.7 1.8V Level Shift W25Q64Fw W25Q128Fw Gd25Lq64 Parts https://a.co/d/5hr2I5x |
tlaurion
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Attacking the w530 today. Clip that came with kit doesn't fit constrained place, needed to rewire my pamona clip with wires that came with my raspberries across the years. They are 10 colors coded, that will help me and probably others replicating.
Then. Will definitely glue all those together with Epoxy they slide way too easily, but that works! |
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That question popped again under Matrix channel https://matrix.to/#/!pAlHOfxQNPXOgFGTmo:matrix.org/$Y5a44cDMjH-CO96sfpn7ZCHeHkBDrsBjPEatp3mbcLE?via=matrix.org&via=nitro.chat&via=envs.net |
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To be honest, I think this thread and concerns from end users are mixing two different use cases: Unbricking / initial flashing/non-development related dev cycles / initial external flashing was made from well testers and platform I well testedThere I actually no need here to anything better/faster /safer then a ch341a even at 5v for most older platforms (thinkpads) if all external power sources are disconnected. dev cycles / debugging /porting of new platforms / multiple flashing a day is needed / newcomers to coreboot and external flashing / insecure end usersThere are way better options then ch341a, different prices ranges, different features across reprogrammers, including some development helper kits (Tigard best of line here) that also provide logic analyser), permits to turn programmer into a coreboot usb debugging helper (through serial over usb) which is possible through beaglebone black and Tigard. So the reason this is not yet in docs is because, depending of goals and needs, there are multiple tools out there. perplexity.ai discussion (made public) : https://www.perplexity.ai/search/Of-all-in-nfyU4c8tQp2.2GONIONnyA Extract of markdown table:
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Will buy a Tigard and test across platforms I own. For some reason,s people don't want to commust ordered one ent on github and stay stubborn having sporadic and non permanent/searchable notes given on Heads matrix channel. Point against Tigard at https://matrix.to/#/!pAlHOfxQNPXOgFGTmo:matrix.org/$WDHLHatL2aVLFCxTK3EX9PUAo8t18yx-eufPSCHdQPk?via=matrix.org&via=nitro.chat&via=envs.net EDIT: if Tigard testing is good:
Then revise promotion of ch341a v1.6+ to tigard/beaglebone black. Just ordered a Tigard from https://www.crowdsupply.com/securinghw/tigard for 67$USD (to ship to Canada, prices will vary), which is not bad and a nice project giving money to someone that devotes himself changing things for the better here |
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Ideally, we would be able to propose a refreshed version for the beaglebone black screwdriver so that bricking could give input from testers through EHCI debugging logs, based and improved upon Or a cheaper alternative, providing both flashrom and usb EHCI debug support, ideally permitting to grab the logs, take micro ssd card/launch command on host and be able to upload those logs in a bug report. |
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Just experienced a n41 bad rom flash from linuxboot/heads@b05fbf6 Points:
Tigard, while faster with default settings, was constantly failing on flashrom verify step, and didn't seem to even check if what was attempted to be written was actually written while verify failed at different addresses. Flashing with ch341a, while slower, successfully unbricked my nv41 with master rom. Some pictures.... Scary setup. No I'm not zen enough to stay immobile for more then 8 minutes at a time with frustrating failing attempts.
Edit: flashrom loop command added from history: retry until successful. No power source connected (no ac, no battery, no cmos). |
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Undusted my beaglebone black, but discovered screwdriver is an unmaintained project :( https://www.coreboot.org/BeagleBone_Black_-_screwdriver unmaintainted project : https://github.com/lynxis/bbb_screwdriver_builder Discussions:
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Tigard: 1 Externally flashed x230t to test linuxboot/heads#1541 and linuxboot/heads#1744 in one rock two stones test. Tigard is way faster then ch341a: |
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tlaurion
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Tigard: 3
Note that I bought myself a nice improvement for otherwise problematic WSON8, a nice probe providing a guider that gently secure the pins to be aligned to the spi chip prior of pushing it down and applying weight to keep it in place. Note that as opposed to the ch341a wich would require you to stay still for 16 minutes (read, write with lots of change + verify that written content fits what is on spi), tigard is really quick and would require you to stay still for around 2 minutes. As of today, I would recommend Tigard to anyone, and guide should probably keep away of too much technical details.
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Tigard:4 The previous guidelines applied makes the tigard a big winner over ch341a 1.6+ for its speed 21 seconds to flash 8mb chip of x230 with tigard externally. |
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An alternative option would be to recommending a Raspberry Pi Pico over the CH431a. They're relatively inexpensive, easy to use, have the correct voltage by default and far faster than the CH431a at reading and writing roms. Based on past experience, the Pico can read, write and verify a 16mb image in under 30 seconds. It requires a serprog uf2 file to be copied to the Pico prior to use as a programmer, but Heads could offer a pre-compiled file (as Libreboot do) to make things easier for the end user.
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Interesting unverified outcome of discussion with perplexity.ai : Here is a detailed comparison of the CH341A, Raspberry Pi Pico, and Tigard as SPI programmers, focusing on their usability, speed, and features for flashing a 16MB SPI chip. OverviewEach programmer has unique strengths and weaknesses, making them suitable for different use cases. Below is a thorough breakdown: Comparison Table
Detailed AnalysisCH341A
Raspberry Pi Pico
Tigard
Recommendations
Each tool serves different needs—select based on your priorities like speed, reliability, or versatility. Citations : |
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Based on the above, the Pico sounds like a good middle ground, combining the low cost of the CH341A with the speed of the Tigard. The Pico isn't as versatile a tool as either the CH341A or the Tigard, but unlike them, it has the potential via scripting to be even more versatile than the Tigard is for a fifth of the cost. I'd imagine that the recently released Pico v2 is even faster at reading chips, but I don't have one to test with rn. The only real downside I can see is that you have to source the clip and wires yourself separate from the Pico, but most authorised resellers of the Raspberry Pi sell the constituent parts needed to make a functional programmer. |
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Good little comparison chart between the Pico and the Pico 2.
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There is a lot of information out there on ch341a programmer giving too much voltage (5v vs 3.3v). Users reports of having bricked their laptops (SPI chip to motherboards resistors).
One of those example is a recent exchange on slack/matrix accessible at:
https://matrix.to/#/!pAlHOfxQNPXOgFGTmo:matrix.org/$kcFoywTcHgKLIbRP3iJ1bgJ8vRUGZsZcCGvvJsCszgw?via=matrix.org&via=nitro.chat&via=talk.puri.sm
xx20/xx30 chips and motherboard resistors are really resilient and cheap ch341a providing 5v never caused any issue, but this may vary for other SPI chips/motherboard when doing in place programming (with a PAMONA clip connected to the chip on the motherboard.)
General guidelines, depending on motherboard is:
I would invite people into discussing facts here to be used to create additional flashing best practice page to the wiki.
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