Should we remove the term "Asset Management"?

[adammontville]

See #61 for background on "asset" (which is being dropped). Should we drop "asset management" for the same reasons?

[henkbirkholz]

The editor's discussion concludes that assets and asset management respectively is a gateway for scope creep. SACM is "only" about a specific asset type - the endpoints. So, removing this definition does not seem to impact any document.

Maybe a reference on how SACM integrates into existing Asset Management should be highlighted in the architecture document.

[david-waltermire]

SACM is about collecting assessing information about hardware and software assets, which is an asset type. Perhaps this can be addressed by more specific terms around “hardware inventory” and “software inventory”? From: Henk Birkholz [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 3:49 PM To: sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology <[email protected]> Cc: Subscribed <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology] Should we remove the term "Asset Management"? (#84) The editor's discussion concludes that assets and asset management respectively is a gateway for scope creep. SACM is "only" about a specific asset type - the endpoints. So, removing this definition does not seem to impact any document. Maybe a reference on how SACM integrates into existing Asset Management should be highlighted in the architecture document. — You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsacmwg%2Fdraft-ietf-sacm-terminology%2Fissues%2F84%23issuecomment-385770079&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C43cc6fda57774c52915708d5af9c89ec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636608009218984740&sdata=YfI9N9uBNOCcJRgWq8dOXhK1QqNnXCIy12F%2Bddn3CSI%3D&reserved=0>, or mute the thread<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FAJaiaAtnhhQmeDbNXK9zIDavMtF8FbfHks5tuLwXgaJpZM4RqRSJ&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C43cc6fda57774c52915708d5af9c89ec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636608009218984740&sdata=bcUPXeXNEJM4VJVH8KATpKXRpsKcxKKdYbuA6a9vMXw%3D&reserved=0>.

[sacm]

Well.... I agree we need to make sure we limit our scope, however we would need an asset model so we are ok with what we are trying to assess. If you look at a single end point your will find that you are asessing several layers and each has its own data models. Example: - For *a web application* you have objects such as http hostname/FQDN, URL, header/body parameter, CWE, etc... - For static analysis on software on top of endpoints you then have to go the the app version, repo, file, line number, source/sink method(s). - For *Infrastrucre vulnerabilities* you have the IP/MAC, CPE/SWID then CVE But finally you have ephemoral hosts, such as desktop VDI instances, containers, virutal machines, cloud worload instances etc... for those endpoints the model is more complicated. Think of the morbid "cattle vs. pets" analogy between Cloud/Data center asstes. <https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/18/servers_pets_or_cattle_cern/> - You have a running instance, this can be owned by one team, but they simply spin up a copy on an image from another team responsible for the "gold image". - The team responsibe for the gold image, would need to apply the fix then notify their users that the latest. - The users of that image would need to spin down those workloads and spin up new ones with the latest image - The gold images also might need to be versioned as there might be instances were the image ower have done their job, but the customer has not updated the image. - Etc.. If there is a pre-existing one, we might just leverage that, but if there isn't... well do we need one? Personally this is one area I am interested in.

…

-Sherif

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 8:55 PM, David Waltermire ***@***.***> wrote: SACM is about collecting assessing information about hardware and software assets, which is an asset type. Perhaps this can be addressed by more specific terms around “hardware inventory” and “software inventory”? From: Henk Birkholz ***@***.*** Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 3:49 PM To: sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology <draft-ietf-sacm-terminology@ noreply.github.com> Cc: Subscribed ***@***.***> Subject: Re: [sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology] Should we remove the term "Asset Management"? (#84) The editor's discussion concludes that assets and asset management respectively is a gateway for scope creep. SACM is "only" about a specific asset type - the endpoints. So, removing this definition does not seem to impact any document. Maybe a reference on how SACM integrates into existing Asset Management should be highlighted in the architecture document. — You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://na01.safelinks.. protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com% 2Fsacmwg%2Fdraft-ietf-sacm-terminology%2Fissues%2F84% 23issuecomment-385770079&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov% 7C43cc6fda57774c52915708d5af9c89ec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c6 1dec%7C1%7C0%7C636608009218984740&sdata=YfI9N9uBNOCcJRgWq8dOXhK1QqNnXC Iy12F%2Bddn3CSI%3D&reserved=0>, or mute the thread<https://na01.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com% 2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FAJaiaAtnhhQmeDbNXK9zIDavMtF8 FbfHks5tuLwXgaJpZM4RqRSJ&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov% 7C43cc6fda57774c52915708d5af9c89ec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c6 1dec%7C1%7C0%7C636608009218984740&sdata=bcUPXeXNEJM4VJVH8KATpKXRpsKcxK KdYbuA6a9vMXw%3D&reserved=0>. — You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#84 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AKbE0WcE2hro-sjyjs3wFX4m5syxBlc8ks5tuL2cgaJpZM4RqRSJ> . _______________________________________________ sacm mailing list ***@***.*** https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm

[jarrettlu]

I don't disagree with Dave and Sherif on how SACM relates to asset and asset management. Hardware/software inventory and multi-layered asset model both fit under RFC4949 "Asset" definition as mission critical system resources which need to be protected. The terms "Asset" and "Asset Management" in SACM terminology draft do not seem to add enough value to justify their presence there. I'm still for removing them.

[henkbirkholz]

Asset just seems to be a tad bit broad. Our focus is Enterprise scope and PANIC automation. Alternatively, we could retain the term IT-Asset or Information-Asset (although that refers to a paper office, also. So I am not sure, we want to do that).

I agree with Jarrett. A convincing usage-scenario (or even just a user story) that highlights why this term is vital, would be a good way to argue for retaining it.

I hope it is okay to limit a submission of such an input to one day before the beginning of the next moratorium (2018-07-01(Sunday)).